this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2023
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Solar now being the cheapest energy source made its rounds on Lemmy some weeks ago, if I remember correctly. I just found this graphic and felt it was worth sharing independently.

Source: https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Pretty clearly shows why there’s no future for nuclear power.

Even for filling gaps in renewables, peaker plants are getting cheaper and don’t take 15 years to build.

[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 year ago (44 children)

This is always a weird take to me because it always ignores the fact that nuclear has been screwed continuously for decades. If any other tecbology, renewable energy or not, had the same public and private blockers did it would also have no future.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

it always ignores the fact that nuclear has been screwed continuously for decades

On the contrary: I'd say it implicitly relies on that fact, which is why the argument that it takes 15 years to build is valid. Because nuclear has been screwed, there's no pipeline of under-construction plants coming online any sooner than that.

It may not be fair that nuclear's been screwed, but that doesn't change history. The only thing that matters is what's better when construction is starting in 2023.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

While I don't think it relies on that fact, you are correct with the rest.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (6 children)

And it is always a question how they calculated handling of nuclear waste.

There are options, we can use coal and natural gas for on demand power to fill the gaps in renewables, we don't have to quit all at once. New ideas for energy storage and comming around, some of them might be useful for small towns, others for remote places.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

there is very very very little nuclear waste.this is complete handwringing. it can be buried and forgotten.

Bigger issue is the carbon costs and pay back periods. Nuclear (unless you've got sources otherwise stating) is green in it's planning phase but not as often in execution. A shit ton of concrete is used, and the plants rarely operate at the capacity they are expected to (or have in the past). Open to revision but that's my current understanding.

They are a massive upfront carbon cost and only become carbon neutral or negative relative to fossil fuels 20+ years down the line.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you have data on that? A modern nuclear power plant is going to be in the 500-1000+ MW range. I have a hard time imagining that even operating at half capacity that they do not offset the carbon used for concrete within a relatively short order. But if that is in fact the case I'd love to see data saying so, so that I can correct my thinking.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Kyle Hill has a nice video about power plants waste disposal, one of cleanest methods there is.

edit: he actually went to the plant and showed how it's done

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I think that's too simplistic of a view. Part of the high cost of nuclear is because of the somewhat niche use. As with everything, economies of scale makes things cheaper. Supporting one nuclear plant with specialized labor, parts, fuel, etc is much more expensive then supporting 100 plants, per Watt.

I can't say more plants would drastically reduce costs. But it would definitely help.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The source article actually talks about this and measured data suggests nuclear cost actually went up, despite more capacity being built.

This is the first time, I've read this anywhere. More sources/studies would be really important. And there is lots of interpretations to be had on the why, but assuming the article isn't completely off the mark, that's cold, hard data suggesting that your (perfectly reasonable) assumption is actually wrong, after all.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Interesting, I'll have to look at the source article.

But as far as I'm aware the total amount of nuclear power has been decreasing in recent years. This might change with China's future plants.

I've also read about small modular reactor designs gaining traction, which would help alleviate the heavy costs of one off plants we currently design and build.

Not saying the source is wrong, just saying that's what I used to form my opinion.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

china's been building dozens of reactors, all of a common design which is the correct way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hualong_One

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Of course It is, the incompetent and ignorant people that try to hinder it's use is the problem

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

The nuclear industry is 100% responsible for the operational record of the nuclear industry.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Cool, so you're either going to have to completely get rid of all the nimbys and people that don't understand nuclear, then build a massive population of qualified workers to build them and staff them and then fund them in the hundreds of billions for at least 2 decades to build up the knowledge base required to be able to build them quickly and efficiently.

Or accept the reality that nuclear is dead in the water.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So the people who built that reactor were incompetent and ignorant?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Reading comprehension isn't really your strong suit, eh? "The incompetent and ignorant people that try to hinder it’s use is the problem"

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

If you are hired to do a task and then overrun the budget by 14B$ I wouldn't exactly call it furthering the cause. More like incompetence and/or trying to detail the project.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

This chart is worthless, so it doesn't show anything. Like 2 data points for this? Seriously? And there was a pandemic and a war since then...