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Downvote brigading via third instance hypothetical (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 week ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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I’ve been on a journey today trying to understand the fediverse better.

I’ll be mindful to not start bitching about certain instances.

Here’s my example:

Is it technically possible that posts or comments still get downvote-brigaded by an instance that is technically defederated from the instance of the OP?

So let’s say instance A and B are defederated from each other, but both are federated with instance C. After a user from A posts something on C does every user from B get to downvote everything?

I’m trying to determine if the Fediverse has recourse against an r/TheDonald scenario, where one toxic element is allowed to flourish for too long and - in the case with the other site - eventually takes over and destroys everything.

If this debate has been had somewhere else, please feel free to point me there, otherwise I’d love to understand this better.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

So let’s say instance A and B are defederated from each other, but both are federated with instance C. After a user from A posts something on C does every user from B get to downvote everything?

Yes. Instance A will not see the downvotes from instance B, but instance C would. Also, anyone federated with all 3 would see the downvotes from B for content posted by someone on A.

The only defense is that mods and admins can see the votes and, if something like that is suspected, they can take action (ban the accounts, mods report the behavior to admins, consider defederating from instance B, etc). Seeing a pattern of mass-downvotes only from a particular instance would be considered a red flag for most admins.

This scenario is less likely than what we see in practice, though, since the overhead to create an instance and the "eggs all in one basket" make it easy to take action against (admins would quickly coordinate to block that instance). Tools like Fediseer would also be used to censure that instance and bring its behavior to light.

In the wild, it's far more common for them to just spin up a bunch of accounts across "good" instances (particularly those without registration applications) and coordinate.

One example of that: https://dubvee.org/post/1878799

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Cool, I think I understand it better now.

So an r/TheDonald situation on Lemmy would effectively mean this community can exist forever until it is just lonely sitting by itself defederated from every other instance in the lemmyverse (fediverse?). So it is impossible to basically shut something like that down on a global scale, only to North Korea it. (At which point, as the analogy goes, they are forced to send their soldiers to help with the Russians and find a way to make trouble that way)

I suppose that’s a fair price to pay for decentralisation. Thanks for the responses.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 week ago

Basically, yeah. Not all admins would defederate, so they probably wouldn't be completely isolated off, but they would definitely have a very reduced audience for their, uh, antics.

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