this post was submitted on 04 Jun 2024
882 points (98.7% liked)

Technology

59374 readers
6873 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 56 points 5 months ago (49 children)

Why... Why does anyone have to do this bullshit? Leave windows l, everyone for the love of everything good, leave windows!

[–] [email protected] 45 points 5 months ago (38 children)

Lol, right. Linux ain't even close to replacing windows - just look at the gaming issues that persist, or other compatibility issues.

It's great for specific use-case scenarios, but I'm not dealing with supporting friends and family when stuff doesn't work because I told them to install a Linux distro.

Besides, business doesn't have this issue - it's only on home (not Pro) installs, because for business we do all sorts of system management that would preclude this, even is MS tried to push it.

This just reflects how MS sees home users - there's no profit there (never has been, it's always been about getting people used to Windows at home, to capture the audience).

No one in my family is allowed to use Windows Home versions. They either buy pro when they get a new computer, or I get it for them.

My standard response to "just go Linux" :

I keep having to say this, as much as I like Linux for certain things, as a desktop it's still no competition to Windows, even with this awful shit going on.

As some background - I had my first UNIX class in about 1990. I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I'd stuck with Cobol).

I run a Mint laptop. Power management is a joke. Configured as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead - as in battery at zero, won't even boot. Windows would never do this, unless you went out of your way to config power management to kill the battery (even then, to really kill it you have to boot to BIOS and let it sit, Windows will not let a battery get to zero).

There no way even possible via the GUI to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions.

There are many reasons why Linux doesn't compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one.

Now let's look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that's just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. The devs of open office refuse to support tables, saying "you should manage data in a proper database app". No, I'm not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That's just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn't realistically shareable with other people. I do this several times a day in excel.

Now there's that print monitor that's on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? In the 21st century?

Networking... Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn't say "save creds"? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. Smh.

Oh, you have a wireless Logitech mouse? Linux won't even recognize it. You have to search for a solution and go find a download that makes it work. My brand new wireless mouse works on any version of windows since 2000, at the least, and would probably work on Win95.

Someone else said it better than me:

Every time I've installed Linux as my main OS (many, many times since I was younger), it gets to an eventual point where every single thing I want to do requires googling around to figure out problems. While it's gotten much better, I always ended up reinstalling Windows or using my work Mac. Like one day I turn it on and the monitor doesn't look right. So I installed twenty things, run some arbitrary collection of commands, and it works.... only it doesn't save my preferences.

So then I need to dig into .bashrc or .bash_profile (is bashrc even running? Hey let me investigate that first for 45 minutes) and get the command to run automatically.. but that doesn't work, so now I can't boot.. so I have to research (on my phone now, since the machine deathscreens me once the OS tries to load) how to fix that... then I am writing config lines for my specific monitor so it can access the native resolution... wait, does the config delimit by spaces, or by tabs?? anyway, it's been four hours, it's 3:00am and I'm like Bryan Cranston in that clip from Malcolm in the Middle where he has a car engine up in the air all because he tried to change a lightbulb.

And then I get a new monitor, and it happens all damn over again. Oh shit, I got a new mouse too, and the drivers aren't supported - great! I finally made it to Friday night and now that I have 12 minutes away from my insane 16 month old, I can't wait to search for some drivers so I can get the cursor acceleration disabled. Or enabled. Or configured? What was I even trying to do again? What led me to this?

I just can't do it anymore. People who understand it more than I will downvote and call me an idiot, but you can all kiss my ass because I refuse to do the computing equivalent of building a radio out of coconuts on a deserted island of ancient Linux forum posts because I want to have Spotify open on startup EVERY time and not just one time. I have tried to get into Linux as a main dev environment since 1997 and I've loved/liked/loathed it, in that order, every single time.

I respect the shit out of the many people who are far, far smarter than me who a) built this stuff, and 2) spend their free time making Windows/Mac stuff work on a Linux environment, but the part of me who liked to experiment with Linux has been shot and killed and left to rot in a ditch along the interstate.

Now I love Linux for my services: Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, containers for Syncthing, PiHole, Owncloud/NextCloud, CasaOS/Yuno, etc, etc. I even run a few Windows VM's on Linux (Proxmox) because that's better than running Linux VM's of a Windows server.

Linux is brilliant for this stuff. Just not brilliant for a desktop, let alone in a business environment.

Linux doesn't even use a common shell (which is a good thing in it's own way), and that's a massive barrier for users.

If it were 40 years ago, maybe Linux would've had a chance to beat MS, even then it would've required settling on a single GUI (which is arguably half of why Windows became a standard, the other half being a common API), a common build (so the same tools/utilities are always available), and a commitment to put usability for the inexperienced user first.

These are what MS did in the 1980's to make Windows attractive to the 3 groups who contend with desktops: developers, business management, end users.

All this without considering the systems management requirements of even an SMB with perhaps a dozen users (let alone an enterprise with tens of thousands).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (15 children)

I came in to say bravo, Since day 1 on Lemmy i been hounded by Linux dude bros , whenever I say Linux is not possible I been down voted to hell.

Even as simple thing as putting a program in start-up is hassle and varies depending upon distribution, and I went on rabbit hole just like you said.

Even the friendlier(?) versions like pop os and zorin in 2024 and no where near to use ability as windows 95 is.

The worst thing is use of command/terminal , I simple just don't want to use it at all, but not possible to do that STILL in Linux and dude bros keep telling me this is essential and their grandparents are using mint. This is believable only if they surf Internet and not do anything extra at all, that too since flash is dead , cause I have first hand experienced that I had to play with multiple command lines and what nots just to get YouTube working on Linux .

Linux is not ready to be used in home setting not unless it simplifies further as much as windows does AND has lot ofnsoftwarws availability. Think of something and thwr is software for it on windows , hardly the case for Linux ANY DISTRO.

now we await on Lemmy , for Linux dude bros to come out and defend Linux with 4% usage and down votes.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

To be fair IDK how to tell a Windows program how to start up automatically if it didn't have an option for that in it's own settings... I'd have to search for a Windows guide

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (3 children)

"shell: startup" or "shell: common startup" in an explorer window take you to the startup folder for your user or all users. Drop a shortcut in there and you're done. Been that way for decades.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

This used to be so much easier back in win 95,98,xp days.

There was a startup folder in the start menu and all you needed to do was drag what you wanted into it.

This is an example of something that got harder.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Okay here is question , show me how in 1.ubuntu 2. Zorin os 3. Pop os . Starting from making a shortcut to a program, by finding whwre is the executable of program. It's a rabbit hole

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Shortcut? To put on desktop? If it already exists in apps menu, then just drag and drop. Should work on every DE. If doesn't work on your DE, then do right click on app in menu and look at the options.

If it doesn't exist in apps menu(very rare), then do right click on executable and see the options.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

The problem is that you're trying to do shit like if you were still on windows. Linux doesn't really have startup applications, we use daemons for everything that needs to start with the OS, everything else is meant to be launched manually.

However you can still do what you're asking for, and it'll depend on the DE not the distribution. Ubuntu and Pop OS use gnome that has an option to set startup programs in gnome tweaks.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

In steam there's a config option to launch on boot... But yea, all the arguments I'm seeing here is rooted in folks not wanting to learn. Switching to Linux is about as annoying as switching to osx. Yea there's growing pains but no one ever uses these same bullshit excuses for that.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

In Lubuntu there's an autostart section of the session settings, and I had to put Nextcloud client AppImage in there because it wasn't starting automatically. But maybe LXQt is unusual? IDK.

Anyway, it wasn't that hard. I didn't even have to do a Web search or use the terminal, just opened the system settings and looked around for something that looked like autostart.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's not that you can't do it, but rather that it's very much a windows concept, applications on linux don't need to hog your attention and dig through your data by starting with the OS. On linux you start an application when you need it. Setting up startup applications is usually a bit hard to find simply because it's not a feature that people care much for so you typically have to dig a bit to do it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Not really true imo. A lot of stuff is automatic. In kubuntu now, most of my apps from last session starts back up when I turn the computer on. Steam, rhythmbox, nextcloud client like I was saying, and all kinds of stuff start automatically as desktop apps. Panel applets are basically auto start apps.

One thing Linux doesn't really do though is autostart stuff you don't want.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Thanks for dropping that knowledge... Perhaps in years and years hence I'll search "Windows add app to startup lemmy" to remember how to do this... I'm much more used to using msconfig to tell Windows apps NOT to start up automatically...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

But thats the thing you do know it , its found with one Search and applicable to Alllllllll the machines running the WINDOWS os (albeit different version might be lillte different) but on "linux" os its not the same for each distro, and its not easy in some cases

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Instead of "Windows add app to startup" I would search "Ubuntu add app to startup" and limit it to articles posted in the past year. Maybe not obvious but not that different honestly.

On the other hand, no amount of searching got my laptop's volume up and down keys to work in Ubuntu :(

load more comments (12 replies)
load more comments (34 replies)
load more comments (44 replies)