this post was submitted on 05 May 2024
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...well, is he wrong? Exploiting kids is the most lucrative endeavour. In fact, if we're going by piece meal and not lump sum, young people are a fat wad of cash.
So of course you knew we need to take every musical art form and turn it into sensory overload on stilts, because money.
Your little crotchgoblins are a path to your wallet.
2 of my kids are young enough that they were targeted by the micro transactions, but the total lifetime spend on gaming stuff is under $1k, mostly spent on a PS4 and a PC for gaming, bought some Steam games, some PS games and both spent a little in Genshin. But not ever from my money, except for the equipment, I split that cost with them. $0 before they were 15. And they both UNDERSTAND money, both got part time jobs in high school, they make money. I don't think it's unreasonable to throw a little cash at a game you enjoy but it needs to be a decision not an impulse, turn off the game and think about it.
If I ever go as far in the relationship area as to have kids, they are not going to have anything Apple\Android until they can think for themselves.
That would be 12 years old or so at least, and before that they'd have to pass an exam (with me evaluating) on how to write simple Unix shell scripts, set up a web server, write simple SQL queries and, well, install and set up the system on which they are going to do this first. Non-computer parts would probably involve some media literacy and symbolic logic. And I think control theory would be required.
That's actually not unreasonable. Getting kids using Open Source platforms which aren't trying to manipulate or spy on them is good.
What does any of that have to do with media literacy or using those devices? You are just being a curmudgeon, not everyone needs to be a systems administrator. Unix isn't even used anymore. Linux and the BSDs are Unix-like, not actual Unix. What if your kids are physicists, chemists, or mathematicians? Are you going to say they aren't good enough to use a fucking smartphone just because they don't know specific things about a certain specific area of tech? How do you know SQL specifically will even be relevant then? NoSQL is already making headway.
This isn't how you get people into Open Source software or interested in technology. You can't do it by forcing them to do things that are esoteric to the majority of people.
That's still called Unix shell scripts even on Linux. Also it is used, Solaris and AIX - sometimes rarely, and BSDs are Unix unless you are a lawyer.
They still can spend a few hours on something useful for life. I know hundreds of little things like this from various areas even less useful specifically for me. While this is useful for everyone, as we can see every day from normies not knowing how anything in computing works and getting scammed.
And of course this is insufficient to be a systems administrator.
No, that it's dangerous for them without some knowledge and feeling of how computers work. That's not to become a specialist, that's just to feel things right.
Can do any of that. That's not about preparing someone for a job.
This is about upbringing and introducing people to things they can't avoid. Not about making them interested (but I'm almost confident that actually it will make a kid interested).
The shell used on most Linux is bash, a GNU project. Not a part of Research Unix. ZSH is newer than both Unix and BASH and is also not a part of Unix.
None of this is going to stop someone getting scammed. You can have plenty of technical knowledge and still get scammed. I got scammed trying to sell a laptop for example. Teaching them how paypal works and to avoid using the friends and family option is much better for this purpose.
You very much can avoid using a Unix-like shell. Your average Windows user has never used one, and neither do most macOS people even though it's included with macOS. Likewise most people will never have to setup a web server.
If you want to give people practical skills start with adblockers and how to reinstall Windows, macOS, and Linux Mint if it goes wrong. If you want to teach them command line skills, maybe start with CMD and PowerShell, since they are more likely to see those in real life than Solaris or FreeBSD. Heck your average person probably needs a Virtual Machine or an emulator more than a web server. Being able to pirate and play old Nintendo games or Play Station 1/2 is pretty cool. So is running Windows stuff on mac or Linux. Could save them buying another PC for that one software program. Likewise learning to work on desktop and laptop PCs can save them buying a new one every few years. Especially useful for PC gamers.
And GNU utilities were obviously used a lot on Unices and when Linux didn't yet exist. Also bash is more or less similar to Korn shell, which was used earlier than you may think. And also zsh, despite people perceiving it as very modern, is older than you may think.
Anyway, if a program written for Unix works on a Unix clone, it doesn't cease being a Unix program. POSIX was a standard for Unix.
I don't get what are you arguing for. Especially since I meant bourne shell scripts, not bash scripts.
I've said once that I want to give a taste of something. I was more general with things one can't avoid, as in "one can't avoid computers and the Internet". And this was pretty clear from the context, either you are playing dumb or you want to defeat someone in an argument, in the latter case I don't care because I see you are not doing that.
A taste of real things I'd want to give to help them connect their inner abstract idea of how the world works with actual material things. They will have that idea, I absolutely trust every person to develop that on their own without help. Without that they might not believe themselves when they should.
See previous.
I don't want them to hate computing. This will lead to that exactly. Especially PowerShell.
Anyway, see that same paragraph.
Why would learning how to fix a PC make you hate computing? If anything it makes you more confident in your ability to fix things if and when you break them. Likewise I don't get what's wrong with learning about Virtual Machines and emulators. PowerShell can't be that bad lol.
What it sounds like to me is you teaching your kids to think computing with Linux/FreeBSD is hard, and to hate using it. You're also teaching them to hate you for putting unnecessary barriers in front of them doing normal things like using a smartphone. Having a smartphone is necessary for modern life, as it does everything from communicating with family, finding out information, banking and booking appointments, ordering a taxi or takeout. Gatekeeping that behind arbitrary things like learning shell and setting up a web server is fucking dumb.
I don't even know what this is supposed to mean or how it's related to the things you are asking them to do.
Not it wasn't clear at all, especially given the other nuts things you have said. You're also not winning this argument, look at who's getting downvotes here.
Downvotes don't have anything to do with winning\losing.
I think it was pretty clear just like other things I've said, and I'm too lazy to repeat or rephrase.
So you may go on and think you've "won" or something, but you didn't understand a single thing of what I said in the first place.
Looking at the votes suggests no one else agrees with you or that no one understands you. You started this conversation coming out swinging. It's on you to explain your position, not on me or anyone else to read your mind. Winning an argument means either convincing the person your arguing with, or better yet convincing everyone else. You have done neither.
No one apart from you thinks making kids do an exam on installing web servers and writing shell scripts before being able to use basic technology they will need for the rest of their lives is a good idea. A smartphone is a basic and essential tool in the modern world and there isn't a real workable alternative to the iOS and Android duopoly.
No, actually nothing is on me. You don't get it - ok, keep walking.
That's a great plan! Do be sure to let us all know how it goes.
Well, that won't be soon, but the closest thing I've had to that - went well.
Shoot man, you gotta think about it the other way. Show them a mobile game, show them the prices, then turn around and show them purchasing power.
For instance, Animal Crossing Pocket Camp. Cute, aimed at kids, horrible leaf ticket practices. Broke down the pricing of one set and for the cost of ACNL and a 2DSXL - you've got something like a 0.8% chance of getting the whole set.
So, show that to a kid, do you want a 0.8% chance of having this set or a whole Game and System?
Granted, this was a while back - the price of those two together probably gets you a 2% chance these days.
I was thinking of showing that on MMORPGs.