this post was submitted on 08 May 2024

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Tesla is being investigated by the DOJ for securities and wire fraud by making misleading self-driving claims (arstechnica.com)

submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 102 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Kudos to the graphic artist on that one. epic.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yes, the autopilot is awfully familiar. Excellent reference.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080339/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOSfFQW2FLo

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago

For real, 10/10, no notes

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

Agreed. First I was like wtf Mr. Peanut dropped his monocle? And then realized what this was.

[–] [email protected] 56 points 6 months ago (3 children)

This is becoming the Donald Trump of companies.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 6 months ago (1 children)

In that they won't have any meaningful regulating done to them or suffer any actual consequences despite the obviously evil shit of which they're plainly guilty?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 months ago

Yes.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

This is the Gilded Age II: Electric Boogaloo

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

AI boogaloo

[–] [email protected] 46 points 6 months ago

Hahahahaha fuck Elon

[–] [email protected] 37 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Waiting for tsla stock to go up now...

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I can't believe it's still at 170+. People must really not realize that the first mover advantage is over, and Tesla has had their moment already. They are not going to lead this change to evs. Most manufacturers have good or better electric cars now.

Also people can't afford them. Current prices are ridiculous. The company that brings low price evs that are good enough will dominate the market the next 5 years. It won't be Tesla.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 months ago (2 children)

The fact that a single company is higher valued than the entire car market should ring all alarm bells. Because afaik is Mercedes already ahead of Tesla in regarding (autonomous) self driving. But don't quote me on it.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

"The market" (stocks) has been and will continue to be divorced from reality but to play devil's advocate, Tesla and it's investors consider it "more than just a car company". It's still ridiculous, but that's the market for ya.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Mercedes "full self driving" is only on designated routes.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Investigate it? The dude literally named it “autopilot”, what is there to investigate, they market this explicitly in their advertising.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

There are several things to attack on the Tesla autopilot, the name being the least of the misleading marketing, and honestly a bit stupid to focus on.

The dude has claimed for close to a decade now, that (FSD) "is right around the corner!"... "It's coming end of the year" and shit like that. That is significantly more misleading than a product name (autopilot) that is about the same level of misleading as other manufacturers names for similar functionality.

They have not claimed autopilot to be any more than a driver assistance feature, and it has always been marketed separately from the FSD package.

[+] [email protected] -32 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

What do you think autopilot does in a plane that would make this misleading?

[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 months ago (2 children)

What layman is familiar with the actual technical ability of aircraft autopilot?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

Press the button and whammy autopilot?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

In that case, why would it be more misleading than Cruise Control?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Autopilot maintains altitude and bearing between waypoints in the sky, and in some (ideal) situations can automatically land the aircraft. In terms of piloting an aircraft, it can handle the middle of the journey entirely autonomously, and even sometimes the end (landing).

Autopilot (the Telsa feature) is not rated to drive the car autonomously, requires constant human supervision, and can automatically disengage at any time. Despite being sold as an “autonomous driver”, it cannot function as one, like autopilot on a plane can. It is clearly using the autopilot feature of an aircraft to imply that the car can pilot itself through at least the middle of the journey without direct supervision (which it can’t). That is misrepresentation.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I am a pilot and this is NOT how autopilot works.

There is some autoland capabilities in the larger commercial airliners, but autopilot can be as simple as a wing-leveler.

The waypoints must be programmed by the pilot in the GPS. Altitude is entirely controlled by the pilot, not the plane, except when on a programming instrument approach, and only when it captures the glideslope (so you need to be in the correct general area in 3d space for it to work).

An autopilot is actually a major hazard to the untrained pilot and has killed many, many untrained pilots as a result.

Whereas when I get in my Tesla, I use voice commands to say where I want to go and now-a-days, I don’t have to make interventions. Even when it was first released 6 years ago, it still did more than most aircraft autopilots.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

This. But I think it's better to use marine autopilot system as a comparison - aircraft autopilots are closely monitored by three people (two in the cockpit, one on the ground as air traffic control) and they are combined with all sorts of other automated systems such as ground proximity alerts/etc. Not really comparable to a car.

Autopilot in a boat traditionally just turns the steering wheel for you. And all it does is maintain a desired direction of travel. Not even a destination, just a direction. So when (not if) wind or currents steer you off course, you will have to take over the steering wheel. It also doesn't control speed. All it does, really, is allow you to keep travelling in approximately the right direction.

There are more advanced systems, but that's traditionally how autopilot works. It's very primitive and has been in use for over a hundred years.

Having said that, Tesla hasn't just used the word "autopilot". They also repeatedly refer to their system as "Full Self Driving". And it kinda does that, as long as there isn't a fire truck in the way.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Agreed.

Nevertheless, the Federal regulators will have an uphill battle as mentioned in the article.

Neither "puffery" nor "corporate optimism" counts as fraud, according to US courts, and the DOJ would need to prove that Tesla knew its claims were untrue.

The big thing they could get Tesla on is the safety record for autosteer. But again there would need to be proof it was known.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Elon, suddenly: I'm really concerned about what is going on in Palestine.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 months ago

Im sure they'll get a fine that's .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of their daily profits

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

Notice how no other car makers overstepped that boundary because they aren't desperate for PR attention.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

The miniature is god tier. 🤣

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

Good