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Meta mocked for raising “Bob Dylan defense” of torrenting in AI copyright fight - Ars Technica (arstechnica.com)

submitted 1 month ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Further, "Whether another user actually downloaded the content that Meta made available" through torrenting "is irrelevant," the authors alleged. "Meta 'reproduced' the works as soon as it made them available to other peers."

Is there existing case law for what making something “available” means? If I say “Alright, I’ll send you this book if you want, just ask,” have I made it available? What if, when someone asks, I don’t actually send them anything?

I’m thinking outside of contexts of piracy and torrenting, to be clear - like if a software license requires you to make any changed versions available to anyone who uses the software. Can you say it’s available if your distribution platform is configured to prevent downloads?

If not, then why would it be any different when torrenting?

Meta 'reproduced' the works as soon as it made them available to other peers.

The argument that a copyrighted work has been reproduced when “made available,” when “made available” has such a low bar is also perplexing. If I post an ad on Craigslist for the sale of the Mona Lisa, have I reproduced it?

What if it was for a car?

I’m selling a brand new 2026 Alfa Romeo 4E, DM me your offers. I’ve now “reproduced” a car - come at me, MPAA.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Further, "Whether another user actually downloaded the content that Meta made available" through torrenting "is irrelevant," the authors alleged. "Meta 'reproduced' the works as soon as it made them available to other peers."

A "peer" in bittorrent is someone else who is downloading the same file as you. This is opposed to a "seeder" which is also a peer but is only sending data, no longer receiving.

You don't have to finish the file to share it though, that's a major part of bittorrent. Each peer shares parts of the files that they've partially downloaded already. So Meta didn't need to finish and share the whole file to have technically shared some parts of copyrighted works. Unless they just had uploading completely disabled, but they still "reproduced" those works by vectorizing them into an LLM. If Gemini can reproduce a copyrighted work "from memory" then that still counts.

Now, to be clear, fuck Meta but also fuck this argument. By the same logic, almost any computer on the internet is guilty of copyright infringement. Proxy servers, VPNs, basically any compute that routed those packets temporarily had (or still has for caches, logs, etc) copies of that protected data.

I don't think copyrights and open global networks are compatible concepts in the long run. I wonder which the ruling class will destroy first? (Spoilers, how "open" is the internet anymore?)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

You don't have to finish the file to share it though, that's a major part of bittorrent. Each peer shares parts of the files that they've partially downloaded already. So Meta didn't need to finish and share the whole file to have technically shared some parts of copyrighted works. Unless they just had uploading completely disabled,

The argument was not that it didn’t matter if a user didn’t download the entirety of a work from Meta, but that it didn’t matter whether a user downloaded anything from Meta, regardless of whether Meta was a peer or seed at the time.

Theoretically, Meta could have disabled uploading but not blocked their client from signaling that they could upload. This would, according to that argument, still counts as reproducing the works, under the logic that signaling that it was available is the same as “making it available.”

but they still "reproduced" those works by vectorizing them into an LLM. If Gemini can reproduce a copyrighted work "from memory" then that still counts.

That’s irrelevant to the plaintiff’s argument. And beyond that, it would need to be proven on its own merits. This argument about torrenting wouldn’t be relevant if LLAMA were obviously a derivative creation that wasn’t subject to fair use protections.

It’s also irrelevant if Gemini can reproduce a work, as Meta did not create Gemini.

Does any Llama model reproduce the entirety of The Bedwetter by Sarah Silverman if you provide the first paragraph? Does it even get the first chapter? I highly doubt it.

By the same logic, almost any computer on the internet is guilty of copyright infringement. Proxy servers, VPNs, basically any compute that routed those packets temporarily had (or still has for caches, logs, etc) copies of that protected data.

There have been lawsuits against both ISPs and VPNs in recent years for being complicit in copyright infringement, but that’s a bit different. Generally speaking, there are laws, like the DMCA, that specifically limit the liability of network providers and network services, so long as they respect things like takedown notices.