this post was submitted on 31 May 2024
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[–] [email protected] 376 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (31 children)

You do it because it makes an attacker’s life harder because now I have to find two bugs instead of one.

The entire boot chain of the phone up to the apps you run are verified successively by the component that loads it. A digital signature helps ensure that only trustworthy code ever runs. A bug must be found to bypass these checks to load malware code. For example, a bug in the image code in a web browser might cause loading of code that isn’t checked. This way the malware gets smuggled onto the phone.

This means that if you get hacked via one bug and malware is loaded, the attacker has to work harder to solve the problem of how do I convince the phone to load it again at boot because the code it’s made of isn’t going to be approved code. When you reboot, you are effectively forcing a validation that all the code you have running is authentic, which would exclude the malware. Trick me once sure, can you survive a full pat down? Probably not. It’ll get caught.

Unless I have a second bug to fool the normal code loading systems too, the malware can’t run. You have to go back and trigger the first bug again somehow, which places more strain on the attacker.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

But that only works for untrusted code escaping a sandbox, right? It does not help with malicious code embedded into legitimate seeming apps. The later vector seems easier, especially on Android, no?

[–] [email protected] 25 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

I don't really consider a malicious app to be an exploit. In this case, the software is doing exactly what it was designed to do -- malicious activity. It's not being manipulated to perform unintended operations through the exploitation of a software bug. Code signing and secure boot are not effective in the face of intentionally shipping malicious code to end users. It's designed to frustrate actual hackers.

For malicious-by-design apps, we rely on a central app store that hopefully reduces the number of bad apps in circulation. If you publish malware, eventually you get caught and we know who you are. Sandboxing with a permissions system helps prevent apps from performing actions contrary to the user's interests. E.g. why is my flashlight app asking for my contacts when I pressed 'change color?'

If you directly exploit your way in, it's harder to know who did this and why because you didn't go through any central vetting or accountability system, and you're not so easily bound by the permissions system. It depends on what your bad guy's goals are, what they want, whom they're targeting. Force your way in the back entrance, crawl through an open window (like a weak security setting), or lie your way in the front door (trojan)? It depends.

None of it is perfect, but I'm sure OS design experts would love to hear about better solutions if any exist.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Your explanations really are poetry.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

Aww, thank you!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

wouldn't a malicious app still be an exploit though? I'd say that if I download an app for playing a game, but instead it was designed to also upload my private photos to the attacker's server, i'd say that's still exploiting. It's just exploiting my expectations of what the app should do, rather than leveraging a system weakness (which it probably does, anyway)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

You’d have to grant the app permission to access your photos. At this point, I would say the problem is more the person in the driver’s seat. You can’t really protect the user from themselves. If you had a legitimate reason to grant access to your photos, then we definitely have a problem.

You can think of this as a kind of exploit if you prefer. However, this becomes a permissions and ecosystem and reputation issue and not really a technical software one. Because you’re looking at a totally different set of tools, I think it’s useful to restrict exploit to refer only to bugs.

You could take that argument one step further and ask what if my new phone comes with preinstalled malware? The system collapses if you can’t have some level of trust the software you’re running.

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